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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I decided to have a shooting session where I compared my four handguns side by side. Nothing fancy, just a B-27 Silhouette target at 10 yards, shooting for the 10X.

Handguns used:
1) Bersa Firestorm .380
2) Taurus 85 .38 Spcl. 2"
3) Glock 19 9mm
4) Kahr CW45 .45 ACP

Subjective results, your mileage may vary...

1) Bersa. Absolutely wonderful. Incredibly "pointable", fit my hand perfect, and held a tight fist sized 9 shot, rapid fire group at 10 yards. Wonderful shot recovery, instinctive shot placement. An absolute joy to shoot! Though only a couple hundred rounds through it now, I have had zero malfunctions (except for a factory mag with a BAD spring. Once replaced, 100%, even with Buffalo Bores).

2) Taurus 38, Oh-Hum at best! Two five shot strings gave me a dinner platter sized group. Not terribly pointable, and shot recovery lousy. NOT fun to shoot at all!

3) Glock. Considering I have about 10,000+ (if not more) rounds through this weapon since I got it as my carry piece as a detective on the SO starting in 1995, it still did not do ten shots as tight as the Bersa. I was using standard velocity 9mms, and got about half again larger group than the Bersa. It just doesn't point as well as the Bersa. Although, I have NEVER had a malfunction from the Glock, so it at least ties the Bersa for reliability.

4) Kahr 45 ACP: 8 shot string (7+1), group size smaller than the Taurus 38, but larger than the Glock! About dinner plate sized as opposed to dinner platter! The factory grip is terrible, and very un-ergonomic. An Uncle Mike's slip on finger groove sleeve helps a lot, but still not as good as the Glock, and nowhere close to the Bersa. At 20 ozs., even standard velocity 45s have a lot of "buck and roar" with not very good shot recovery. It has only been 90-95% reliable for me. (EDITED, when I realized malfunctions were one shot out of 10-15 rounds). Some of the problem was hollow-point, and some was factory mags. The Cotes ACT mags are better, but still not 100%.

Conclusions:

If I had to fight a war, or in a pitched gun battle, the Glock would of course be my first choice. It is a warfighters weapon.
For every day carry CCW, the FireStorm wins, especially with Buffalo Bore +P 90 grainers giving 288 ft pounds from the Bersa's 3.5 inch barrel.
The Taurus, I will probably never bother to carry anymore, since i only had it for an ankle holster weapon. The Bersa does that for me now.
The Kahr, well, I'll probably only carry that when I'm hiking or back packing in bear country. Loaded with Winchester Ranger 230 +P T-Series (Black Talon) LE ammo, it could at least hurt a bear with a 10X shot.

The absolute controllability and pointability of the Firestorm, and my confidence in my ability to do a 10 yard hostage (head) shot with it, just win the day. Nine shots of Buffalo Bore should solve any social situation that may arise! The only other pistol I shot this well was my CZ83 that I foolishly sold....
 

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I've enjoyed your report, especially the results between the FS-380 and the G-19. I was originally trained on a S&W 38 in the AF Security Police back in the mid 60s, actually owned a S&E 38 Chiefs special for a while, and currently own a seldom fired 70 year old USGI Colt 45. Even though my current EDC, due to colder weather, heavier clothing and perceptions of national and local security, is one of my 9UCs with FP 147gr +P JHP, my first personal handgun, a BT-380 with the 9rd DLX mag with Speer Gold Dot or Corbon DPX JHP rounds is still, by far, my favorite EDC, and like you, most of it is due to the far better fit in my hand and second, the concealability. I still carry it year round as my Sunday go to Meeting carry or where it's concealable is more preferable.

I got to admit that even though I prefer the 380, I do better on the target range with the 9UC. I'd like to see the do the same report again should you have the chance to sub the G-19 for a BT-9UC. I have to admit, I've never fired one, only handled one at an LGS, but did not like the feel of the one that I did handled. I have one Glock to Bersa conversion on the books. I have a retired Marine Corps friend back in Las Vegas who was a serious Glock fanatic, he had four, two 9s and two 40s in his collection. He ask to fire my 9UC to humor me after I gave a glowing description of the all metal frame, shootability, handling & safety features. He came back from the firing line with a funny look on his face, and simply said "I want it". I stumbled onto one that afternoon at the Nellis AFB BX that afternoon, called him to let him know, and he went out the next morning and bought it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Update: After the last shooting session, I was so UNIMPRESSED with the Taurus 38 and the Kahr CW45, I sold them and bought a NIB CZ83 .380! LOL. I came with two 10 rounders (though see later in this post). I Love my Bersa, and it will be my ankle pistol, or coat pocket pistol. The CZ83 will be my IWB weapon. It still smaller and easier to hide than the Glock 19, but 14 rounds of Buffalo Bore will do just fine. (I still have pre-2000 high caps for it that I had when I had a CZ83 and CZ82 in the 90s. The CZ 83 was the most accurate semi auto handgun I have ever fired! My Bersa is a close second, though.

I asked myself would I rather have a 5 shot 38 that I can't hit anything with, an 8 shot 45 ACP that I can't trust 100% (and may not hit something with), or would I rather have a 9 shot (Bersa) or 14 shot (CZ83) .380 that I can hit an apple at 10 yards, and will function 100%??????
 

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As I shoot the BP9 more the more I like it and the more confidence I have in it. I should RTFM on the pistol before I took it the the range. Fortunately I took a wide range of ammo the first time and not just a few boxes of the cheapest 115 grain that I can find. It seems to like 124 grain 1,150 fps PMC hard ball best of what I have tried. I think it will have less FFEs and less stove pipes after this cleaning. The gun works much smoother easier this time.

I bought the Bersa BP9CC for the trigger, its sights and it fit in my hand. For old eyes the BP9CC's miss matched white dots on front and rear Novac sights with a big bright white dot and the trigger were the real closer for me. The pistol points very well for me and being cross dominant that's a function of how the grip fits my hand. The Bersa BP9CC fits my hand well[not many pistols do]. I rate it shootablity very high for this size pistol in my hand.

The Bersa BP9CC will be great for BUG to my CZ 75 P-07 or fine carry gun in polite company or a trip to the store with a S&W 649-2 as a BUG. The way things are shaping up all 3 should about right with a good knife or two and a couple of M-5s and a shotgun in the trunk for supper and night out in the city.

The first time I picked up a Bersa BP9CC I thought the trigger was total crap. The trigger either grew on me or broke in over 10 minutes or so because I sure changed my mind about the trigger before I bought it. The trigger on BP9 sure not the single action trigger on my CZ 75 P-07 with a Cajun Gun Works Combat Kit that David installed on it but I will wear the BP9 when it's too much trouble to strap on the P-07 in a way it doesn't show.

it shoots better than some guns I paid good money to have some one install and tune the trigger the have. After less than 50 rounds the trigger's not perfect but the sights stay on target and I hit where I should when the trigger breaks. It doesn't need to feel like a 1911 trigger or be smooth as silk it just needs to work like trigger and does that job well.

So far it's not fond of 115 grain ammo that only is moving at 1,100 fps but works 100% on 124 grain at 1,130 fps I expect it will eat the light stuff after a couple of hundred rounds of heaver ammo to smooth things up.

Red

A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition - Kipling
 

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A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition - Kipling
Good report, love the quote from Kipling, and welcome to the forum from the SE coast of Texas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Old Red! Welcome to the forum. Nice report. My Glock 19 seems to favor 124s also. I will say it also likes the 9BPLE +P+ 115s which, IIRC, give about 1300+ FPS from the Glock.
 

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This isn't a Bersa thing, although I do agree with you. I found my Thunder 380 darn accurate right outta the box. But last year, I fell in love with the Polish MilSurp P64 9mm Makarov pistol! It is a HANDFUL!!! I bought and refurbished a bunch - that 30 lb trigger was HORRIBLE! Put in new Wolff springs, sold one to a friend and gave one to each of my 2 grandsons (Who's got the coolest grandpa?! :)) and those little pistols (6+1 capacity 9X18 ammo steel-cased) are accurate as all get-out! Sights are tiny but the gun points like a friggin' compass. They blew me away - along with more than a few targets. So, IMO, there IS something about some pistols that just makes 'em "special".
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This isn't a Bersa thing, although I do agree with you. I found my Thunder 380 darn accurate right outta the box. But last year, I fell in love with the Polish MilSurp P64 9mm Makarov pistol! It is a HANDFUL!!! I bought and refurbished a bunch - that 30 lb trigger was HORRIBLE! Put in new Wolff springs, sold one to a friend and gave one to each of my 2 grandsons (Who's got the coolest grandpa?! :)) and those little pistols (6+1 capacity 9X18 ammo steel-cased) are accurate as all get-out! Sights are tiny but the gun points like a friggin' compass. They blew me away - along with more than a few targets. So, IMO, there IS something about some pistols that just makes 'em "special".
I wish we could get them in Kalifornistan. They look like pretty cool pistols.
 

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I wish we could get them in Kalifornistan. They look like pretty cool pistols.
Trust me - they are. Sorta kinda based on the Walther PPK and built of all steel in Poland's Radom factory 60s - 70s. Like a tank! Get rid of that lousy trigger (all new springs $11), clean, lube shoot. Then shake your hand because recoil is brutal! A glove helps and all leather holster (excellent quality new on eBay $25) make it a decent CC pistol. Pistol w/2 mags can be found $199 - 250 depending on who you buy from and condition. I love 'em. Refurbished 9 so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was lucky that Bersa FireStorm and CZ83 - both 380s- (two of my all time favorite pistols) are on the Roster of Approved Pistols. There are only seven or eight total 380s approved, including the Bersa and CZ. At one point I think there were only four or five on the list. NO 9x18s approved. I guess they think they are evil because it is a "Commie" caliber (which considering we are turning into a Socialist state in Cali, is REALLY ironic!)
 

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Sounds more and more that the California State Motto should be changed to It's not about the Guns, it's about the Control


 

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Welcome to the Bersa Pistol Forum RED, glad to have you with us, and Howdy from the Lone Star State DFW area.

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I fount the PB9CC much more shootable than I expected. One of the most pleasant aspects is the ease of loading magazines. After loading 15 or 16 in a double stack 9 with a $30 tool easily loading 7 in by hand is a snap, with a little effort on the 8th one. The groups the size of my hand have proved that Bersa's choice of Glock rear Sight and Sig front sight was and inspired one, IMO.

The one thing I have to fix is to pad the right rear lower quarter of the grip to twist the pistol points up and to the right to make up for aiming with my left eye and shooting right handed.

I just got back from the range and put another 80 rounds though the BP9CC after I did an extensive cleaning and lube job on it. I went with a fellow that was taking out his CZ 85 Combat for the first time. A CZ 75/85 fits my hand better than any pistol on the market as the come out of the box. The CZ 85 Combat has possible the best single action trigger on anything that's not a 1911 I've ever seen. I was shooting groups that I could cover with my hand a 10 yards with either one right off the bat. The sights on the BP9CC were easer for me to use than the ones on the CZ 85C.

I was really surprised to hold my own with 73 year eyes and the trembling hands that go with them shooting an inexpensive striker fired sub-compact that 6.3 inches against a 26 year old shooting one the world's top competition pistols that;s 8.11 inches long and weighs twice what my BP9CC does. I didn't shoot his CZ 85C any better and he didn't shoot my BP6CC any worse after the first magazine. Neither one of us were used to his CZ 75C and he was used to my BP9CC or he would creamed me with it. The only advantage the BP9CC had for me were the sights.

While the CZ 85C had a markedly better trigger I don't think the BP9CC's trigger was any less accurate for me today. I make no promises about future performance. I did have on unintentional discharge while pointed inside the rings of the target when I testing the trigger reset on the BP9CC. It's trigger reset is softer and less tactile than most pistols I've used and I fired the pistol while I thought I was holding my finger still waiting for the sights to settle down on the target. I think started to pull the trigger too soon. I have done that before on short reset triggers as they not the way I usually shoot. The only way I can make short reset work for me is to hold the trigger back until I am read to shoot then let it reset and pull the trigger.

It fed all the 124 grain ammo I fed it. It ate 115 gr S&B just fine. It shined on 115 gain Winchester White box. The empty would be left in the camber and the slide would pick up the next round and jam. It was little trouble to clear. Lock the slide, drop the mag, shake the pistol and the empty falls out of the chamber, pick up the round that failed to feed, drop it in the camber, drop the slide, fully insert the magazine and continue firing. If the magazine if filled with the box Winchester White box I have repeated 7 times. The same ammo worked fine in the CZ 85C. I suspect I got box of Winchester that isn't loaded up to specs or the extractor rim doesn't fit the extractor. Because the case sure isn't stuck in the chamber as it just fall out when I point the gun up.

I feel the problems feeding low power factor ammo is due to the strength of the recoil spring. The slide is harder for me to rack than I think it needs to be. I haven't shot it outside to see where the brass falls so I can't say for sure.

Red

“Four things greater than all things are, - Women and Horses and Power and War” -Kipling
 
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