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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Buffalo Bore .380 ammo. 288 ft lbs from a 3.5" barrel (Walther PPK test pistol)

This is an excerpt from their web page on their web page for their 90 grain +P hollow point. Velocities are actual from the company owner's own assorted 380 pistols. They say they do not exceed SAAMI pressure, using special low flash powders. I wouldn't shoot a steady diet, especially in a polymer framed weapon, but my mags are loaded with the stuff for carry! 288 ft lbs from a 3.5" 380! A standard 9mm only give about 290 to 300 from a short barrel Ruger LCP or Glock 26.

Here's the link: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129

380 Auto +P Ammo - 90 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1200fps M.E. 288 ft. lbs.)
20 Round Box


The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it. HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper. We've studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

Here's the problem:

The current 380 auto frangible ammo delivers a large amount of surface trauma, but lacks serious penetration. For example, if you shot me or another sane man in the face with modern frangible 380 ammo, it would blow off a big portion of my cheek and send a few teeth down my throat, I would undoubtedly fall to the ground in shock and pain, but I would be very much alive and functional if I could get past the shock and pain as that frangible bullet would have stopped some where inside my face, never making it to my brain. However, if you shot a drugged up maniac in the face with that same frangible 380 ammo and blew half his cheek off, he would keep right on coming because he is insane and is not thinking like you or I. Plus, he is likely pain free and fear free and wont know that half his cheek is missing and if he did know, he would not care. So whatever 380 ammo you shoot him in the face with, had better go through his face and blow his brain stem out the back of his head, because only a CNS (central nervous system) hit with a 380 is going to stop him. Likewise, a torso hit to the sternum needs to penetrate deep enough to blow all the way through his spine in order to shut him down spontaneously. If you fail to shut him down instantly, you and your loved ones are going to have to find a way to survive while you wait for him to bleed out and pass out. The best chance of survival for you and your family is to shut down the attacker instantly. So, we've designed a few 380 auto +P loads to keep you and your loved ones alive under the worst of scenarios.

This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you'll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you'll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame.

Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75 inch barrel. We've utilized the very same flash suppressed powders that we've used in our two other 380 auto +P loads. If you like the idea of the extra big hole this expanding load makes in human flesh, we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle. Note my "real world" velocities from my personal "real world" pistols.

➤ 1218 fps -- BDA-3.75 inch barrel
➤ 1200 fps -- Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel
➤ 1123 fps -- Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel
➤ 1100 fps -- Keltec"
 

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Hey there imarangemaster, sorry, I'm a day late and a dollar short on catching one of your posts. I tried BB 90gr several years ago, but with poor results. Unfortunately I was guilty of trying them far too soon in a newly acquired handgun. I had an FTC about every other round. BT & FS-380s at the time I purchased were known to be very cranky on flat nose and/or JHP rounds until a good break in of between 250 to 400 rounds. I had them tested by a guy on another forum bu the username of ncflyfisherman and he had no problems with them. The JHP and flat nose rounds would catch on the edge of feed ramp. Just a note, unless there has been a recent update, BB 90gr has not been listed by SAAMI as a +P round but I do admit that the ones managed to fire years ago did have a heavier recoil kick than rounds of other brands. After 7 plus years, I've given consideration to giving them another try, but I bought several boxes of Speer Gold Dot, then caught a sale on Corbon DPX at far less than the price of BB and bought enough to last for several years. As the BT/FS 380 is basically a clone of the PPK 380, the results should be close if not identical. Thanks for your posting.
 

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A standard 9mm only give about 290 to 300 from a short barrel Ruger LCP or Glock 26.
Two points of interest (or not). I was told there was NO SUCH THING AS +P 380. OK, whatever. I tried the BB +P ammo after asking Bersa (via email) if +P was OK in the Thunder. I was told yes. The BB HP has pretty good penetration but their hard cast lead bullets claim 24 inches! That's a lot!

DO NOT USE +P in a Ruger LCP 380. Ask me how I know... I was told it would be OK in moderation. Book says NO +P. I guess our ideas of "moderation" were different. I blew the head off of the take-down pin so I couldn't get the gun apart for cleaning or nuttin'. It also barely chipped the lower corner of the extractor claw so extraction became "iffy" at best. No more +P in the LCP and look at the hard cast lead for the Bersa. It's badass
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks. I figured they would be too much for a Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP380. I know there is no such SAAMI specification as +P for 380s, just as there is nor spec for +P+ in 9mm or .38 Special!

I shot some Buffalo Bore 90 grain +P JHPs in my Firestorm and was amazed that the recoil was not much more than my Hydrashocks! Nothing like shooting the 147 grain +P+ LE .38 Hydrashocks in a 2" revolver!

My Mec-Gar mags did not feed it well though, with one FTF in each mags (always the third round???) The factory 7 rounder (modified to 8 rounds) seems to feed them fine, though. I am using it for EDC instead of my Glock, though in a couple weeks, I will be getting a CZ83, too. The Bersa will remain my ankle holster weapon for when dressed up, and the CZ (13+1) will be my IWB, under the shirt weapon. I had a CZ83 with pre-2000 possessed in California high caps. I sold the pistol 3 years ago, but kept the mags.
 

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I have never used a Frangible bullet in any of my pistols, since I don't trust them. In the winter time when people wear a lot of clothes I don't want a bullet that falls apart when it hit it's target. My carry pistol has Hornady Critical Defense ammo, with my spare mag loaded with FMJ.
If what I understand from this post the +P ammo is a better stopper however should not be used too much in polymer frames. Which I imagine means range time unless you are in a war zone. I need to get a box or 2 of Buffalo Bore .380 ammo to try it out since I am always looking for an edge in case of any trouble. My Bersa 380 should be able handle some range time with the Buffalo Bore .380 ammo.
 

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I have never used a Frangible bullet in any of my pistols, since I don't trust them. ...................
Wish I could say the same, but must admit that I have used them in my BT380 for target practice at a local gun range that required their use between in 2008-2010 when nearly all handgun ammo supplies dried up thanks to the political environment. Being new to the personal ownership handgun and carry world at that time, I let myself get caught with my pants down on ammo supply, thought it would always be availible. (Did I see CHANGE?) I only had one box of GB Remington FMJs, and one box of Speer Gold Dot JHPs when supplies dried up. I kept those for use only in my SD mags and would buy a box of the frangibles when I went to the range. Now I keep a whole different philosophy More than one caliber and a back up fore each caliber and plenty of ammo on hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is against my religion, so to speak, to have less than 800 to 1,000 of ammo per firearm! i.e. two ARs = 1,900 rounds, one AK = 1,400 rounds, One 9mm + 1,500 rounds, one .380, 600 rounds (still accumulating!)
 

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A new twist to the old pharase Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammo! As already mentioned on lack of ammo, been there ,done that, but won't do it again. I can't afford nor do I want to stock to the level of a couple of my friends I have in Vegas, we were members of a local gun club, but they were also part of the "survival movement" always had from 10k in rounds per caliber.
 

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I agree with you and 9UC in that you should always have plenty of ammo for each caliber which is why I buy the ammo I expect to use at the range to replace what I use that day. It keeps my stock fresh and my ammo count remains the same.
texasflagrainbow003.jpg
 

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Oops! My apologies to the OP, imarangemaster, as I have allowed myself to get pretty far off track and hijacking the thread on the blessing and or evils of BB 380. As I got into stocking more than an immediate use supply, I took a hint from my military background. I started buying good to excellent quality surplus 7.62 ammo cans. They hold 7 to 8 boxes of 9mm and/or 380 and 6 boxes of M1 carbine and stack up to five high with no problems. The hinged lids have a rubber gasket and do an excellent job of keeping ammo dry.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My 7 round factory mag that came with my new FireStorm would not feed anything reliably at first. It had a cheesy, flimsy spring. It looked like piano wire, and barely cleared the bottom of the magazine with the base plate off. I rebuilt the factory 7 rounder with a: spring, floor plate and floor plate lock from a CC mag, that I got from Eagle Imports for about $14 delivered. The result was an 8 round magazine that fed the Buffalo Bore 90 grain +P flawlessly! 9 shots of Buffalo Bore on board gives me a warm fuzzy feeling....
 

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I need to get a box or 2 of Buffalo Bore .380 ammo to try it out since I am always looking for an edge in case of any trouble. My Bersa 380 should be able handle
some range time with the Buffalo Bore .380 ammo.
Tony, FYI, I contacted "Eagle" and they said +P was OK in the Thunder. Now, Buffalo Bore has 3 interesting (and consequently expensive +P loads): They have a +P HP with 13 inch penetration and one (I think...) with 14" penetration. The flat nosed, hard-cast lead round said 24 inch penetration! And this wasn't BB saying it, it was a chart of almost ALL handgun calibers in American Rifleman magazine. 24" is a LOT of penetration - maybe even too much. Up to you. But, as I said, they ain't cheap. I think it was like $24-25 for 20 rounds! I bought it for the novelty and for some diversity for a small caliber carry load. I still have like 15 rounds of each at that price!!!

I also got some BB 357 loads that went off at 1700 fps (!!!) just for fun. They weren't. They were unpleasant! Still got some of those babies, too!!! Slipped one in on my grandson along with 4 regular 357 loads. His eyes lit up almost as bright as the flame that jumped outta the 2" barrel!!! :eek:
 

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Hi Robhic, thanks for the stats on the Buffalo Bore ammo, WOW even the 13" penetration would go right thru me and keep going. So I will stick with the plain old +P if I like it better than the Hornady Critical ammo I am using now.
Sure hope your Grandson is still talking to you after you slipped him a couple of Buffalo Bore rounds in with his regular 357 rounds.

tee.gif
 

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Sure hope your Grandson is still talking to you after you slipped him a couple of Buffalo Bore rounds in with his regular 357 rounds.
Oh yes, he enjoys the hot loads, it just surprised him. He likes the fact that I gave him my Glock G30sf .45acp, too! He turns 21 and needs a gun 'cause he wants to get his CC permit. I had trouble (I HATE getting old!) holding that full-size 45 and being accurate for any length of time so I made a deal with him and bought myself a new compact Glock 36 single-stack. Amazing what a difference 7 oz. makes! Now the younger granddude LOVES my Bersa Thunder! He used to like the .38 snubbie but now he's all-in on the Bersa. Guess I need to stock up on .380 ammo!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oops! My apologies to the OP, imarangemaster, as I have allowed myself to get pretty far off track and hijacking the thread on the blessing and or evils of BB 380. As I got into stocking more than an immediate use supply, I took a hint from my military background. I started buying good to excellent quality surplus 7.62 ammo cans. They hold 7 to 8 boxes of 9mm and/or 380 and 6 boxes of M1 carbine and stack up to five high with no problems. The hinged lids have a rubber gasket and do an excellent job of keeping ammo dry.
Haha, no problem. After all, this is a conversation, not a lecture! LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Update: I have totally switched ALL my carry ammo to Buffalo Bore 90 grain +P .380. Both my Bersa FireStorm (8+1 for ankle carry) and my CZ83 (13+1 for IWB carry) are loaded with it. There is a spare mag for each pistol, also loaded with Buffalo Bore +P, in the glove compartment of each vehicle. There is also a spare mag for each on the shelf for pocket carry. Those are also loaded with Buffalo Bore +Ps.

While it took more than 5 twenty-round boxes to fill up all the mags (and more $$$ than I care to think), I felt the Buffalo Bore's near 9mm Parabellum performance justified it. With it's 90 grain, cup nosed bullet traveling at 1218 fps from the CZ (and 1200 fps from the Bersa) giving 300+ ft lbs and 12+ inch penetration, it puts the lowly 380 in the 9mm ball park. Sure I have a Glock 19, but it is not as accurate, nor is it as compact s the two 380s.... Despite having fired tens of thousand of round from the Glock in the last 20 years, I don't shoot it as accurately as the 380s with Buffalo Bore. Your milage may vary.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
These Buffalo Bore +P 90 grain HPs remind me of an old, out of print, SPEER Lawman load: The 45 ACP 200 grain JHP "Flying Ashtray". It had a somewhat shallow, V shaped hollow point with a large opening. In the 1970s, S&W also made ammo, and they had a 100 grain HP designed specifically for their Model 39 & 59 pistols. It had the same kind of shallow, v shaped HP with a large opening.

The new issue BB +P should work even better than the bullet they had on the earlier versions with the deep, narrow hollow point. This one should be impervious to plugging up with heavy clothing.

 
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